「云德访谈」精英律师院长说｜刘仁琦——精英律师培养模式之面谈

本期嘉宾—刘仁琦

西北政法大学律师学院、刑事辩护高级研究院副院长

人物介绍

刘仁琦，法学博士，西北政法大学律师学院、刑事辩护高级研究员副院长，西北政法大学刑事法律科学研究中心研究员，并担任证据法学研究所副所长。主要研究方向为刑事诉讼法学、证据法学。现主要从事刑事诉讼法学和证据法学的教学研究，其论文《我国食品安全犯罪案件[1]涉案证据的适用问题研究》荣获中国法学会颁发的优秀征文三等奖。

Liu Renqi, Doctor of Law, Vice President of Northwest University of Politics and Law Lawyers College, Senior Researcher of Criminal Defense, Researcher of Northwest University of Politics and Law Criminal Law Science Research Center, and Deputy Director of Evidence Law Research Institute. The main research directions are criminal procedure law and evidence law. At present, he is mainly engaged in the teaching and research of Criminal Procedure Law and Evidence Law. His paper “Research on the Application of Evidence Involved in Food Safety Crime Cases in China [1]” awarded the third prize of Excellent Essay Writing issued by China Law Society

采访ing

Q:感谢刘院长百忙之中参加云德律师学院首届院长论坛，想请您谈一谈您对参加本次论坛以及对论坛主题“精英律师研讨会—从平凡走向卓越”的感受。

Thank you for attending the first Deans Forum of Yunde Law College in spite of your busy schedule， President Liu. I would like to ask you to talk about your feelings about attending this forum and the theme of the forum, “Elite Lawyers Seminar-From Ordinary to Excellence”.

A:首先，感受到了云德律师学院在培养人才方面的积极举措和创新方法。论坛现场我看到云德在自身律师技能与技巧的培训上，下了很多力气，举行辩论赛、模拟法庭、案例研讨等等，这对提升律师，尤其是初任律师效果非常明显，还可以加强本所律师内部的交流，有利于律师本身的团建工作，可以说“一举多得”！

First of all, I felt the positive measures and innovative methods of Yunde Law College in training talents. On the scene of the forum, I saw that Yunde Law Firm has made a lot of efforts in the training of their own lawyer skills, holding debating competitions, mock courts, case discussions, etc. It has a very obvious effect on promoting lawyers, especially newly appointed lawyers. It can also strengthen the internal communication of lawyers in this institute, which is conducive to the team building work of lawyers themselves. It can be said that “it can achieve many things with one stroke”!

其次，我感受到了云德律师学院在培养人才方面的力度：一方面，就时间而言，每周至少一次，有时两次的培训，实际上推行起来比较难，因为这其中不但要有参与者，还要有指导者，对于平时工作很忙的职业律师而言，这确实难能可贵，云德可以把它做到常态化，我觉得很不容易；另一方面，资金投入，我知道云德在精英律师培训方面，给与了很多物质投入，律所在这方面从来都不吝啬，我觉得这是律师事务所对于年轻律师成长的担当，值得敬佩！

Secondly, I felt the strength of Yunde Law College in training talents: On the one hand, in terms of time, training at least once a week, sometimes twice a week, is actually more difficult to implement, because it requires not only participants but also instructors. For professional lawyers who are very busy at ordinary times, this is really valuable. Yunde Law Firm can normalize it, which I think is not easy. On the other hand, I know that Yunde Law Firm has given a lot of material investment in the training of elite lawyers. The law firm has never been stingy in this respect. I think this is the responsibility of the law firm for the growth of young lawyers and is worthy of admiration!

最后，我感受到了云德律师学院在培养人才方面的成效。通过几次的交流，我感受到了很多年轻律师成长非常迅速，表达、业务能力等方面都有较大幅度的提升。刚跨出校门、走上律师道路的年轻人，身上的学生气还未褪去，所学的理论还很难直接应用于实践，快速的适应职业需求，需要自身努力和外界助力相结合。云德律师学院很好地做到了助力作用，给与了年轻人快速成长的平台，通过培训，实习律师、刚执业的律师对于专业知识等有了更为深刻认识，收效显著！

Finally, I felt the effectiveness of Yunde Law College in training talents. Through several exchanges, I felt that many young lawyers have grown up very rapidly and have greatly improved their expression and professional ability. Young people who have just stepped out of school and embarked on the road of lawyers have not faded their student spirit, and the theories they have learned are still difficult to be directly applied to practice. They need to combine their own efforts with external assistance to quickly adapt to professional needs. Yunde Law College has done a good job of helping young people to grow up rapidly. Through training, intern lawyers and newly practicing lawyers have gained a deeper understanding of professional knowledge and achieved remarkable results.

同时还要恭喜丁主任获评陕西十大法治人物，确实是实至名归，他在培养青年律师方面付出了很多，担当了很多！

At the same time, I would also like to congratulate Director Ding on being rated as one of Shaanxis top ten legal figures. He really deserves it. He has paid a lot and taken on a lot of responsibilities in training young lawyers.

Q:我们知道，刘院长负责西北政法大学的刑事辩护培训工作，所以我们想在精英律师的培养标准或者机制上听听您的见解。

We know that President Liu is responsible for the training of criminal defense in Northwest University of Politics and Law, so we would like to listen to your opinions on the training standards or mechanisms for elite lawyers.

A:我觉得这应该根据培训对象的需求而定，对于实习律师或年轻律师，更多的是技能学习，将理论知识转化为实践能力；对于执业久一点的律师，我想更多是技巧学习，更加注重如何将实践能力进一步提升。

I think this should be determined according to the needs of the trainees. For intern lawyers or young lawyers, more is skill learning, transforming theoretical knowledge into practical ability. For lawyers who have been practicing for a long time, I think they should learn more skills and pay more attention to how to further improve their practical ability.

Q:您在从事律师培养工作的过程中，对于律师学院的课程开发、教学设计、管理与评价等方面一定积累了很多有益的经验，请您谈一谈对于云德律师学院的运行模式有什么更系统的建议？

In the process of training lawyers, you must have accumulated a lot of useful experience in the curriculum development, teaching design, management and evaluation of the Yunde Law College. Could you please talk about any more systematic suggestions on the operation mode of Yunde Law College?

A: 我仅就刑事辩护律师培养而言：

As far as the training of criminal defense lawyers is concerned:

首先，关于课程开发，应该注重实体法、程序法、证据法的理论与实务结合；

First of all, regarding curriculum development, we should pay attention to the combination of theory and practice of substantive law, procedural law and evidence law.

其次，关于上课方式，我觉得可以是模拟法庭、模拟辩论、理论研讨、小型沙龙等多种方式相结合，不需要拘泥于形式；

Secondly, regarding the way of attending classes, I think it can be a combination of mock court, mock debate, theoretical discussion, small salon and other ways, without rigidly sticking to form.

再次，关于课程的系统性上，我想，应该让课程内容具有体系性，这样知识才具有体系性，不能随意安排主题，应该注重知识的连贯性；

Thirdly, regarding the systematicness of the curriculum, I think that the content of the curriculum should be systematic, so that knowledge can be systematic, themes cannot be arranged at will, and consistency of knowledge should be paid attention to.

复次，关于上课的方式，我想应该参考国内诊所教学、互动教学的方式，让每个人都有发言的机会、表现的机会、参与的机会、分享的机会，一方面可以展示自我，一方面还可以暴露自我缺点，让大家指出以期改正；

Again, regarding the way of attending classes, I think we should refer to the way of clinical teaching and interactive teaching in China, so that everyone can have the opportunity to speak, express, participate and share. On the one hand, we can show ourselves, on the other hand, we can expose our own shortcomings, so that everyone can point out and correct them.

最后，关于管理与评价，我想可以采用学分制，根据课程内容，设计一定学分，只有学分积满，才发放证件，或学分积满后职业通道（如才可作出庭助理律师、出庭律师等）晋升上才有一定空间。

Finally, regarding management and evaluation, I think we can adopt the credit system and design certain credits according to the content of the course. Only when the credits are full can certificates be issued, or only when the credits are full can there be a certain space for promotion in career channels (such as being a court assistant lawyer, a court lawyer, etc.).

谢谢刘院长！Sincere thanks for Dean Liu.